Search Results: "chep"

24 October 2017

Reproducible builds folks: Reproducible Builds: Weekly report #130

Here's what happened in the Reproducible Builds effort between Sunday October 15 and Saturday October 21 2017: Past events Upcoming events New York University sessions A three week session will be held at New York University to work on reproducibilty issues in conjunction with the reproducible builds community. Students from the Application Security course will be working for two weeks to work on the reproducible builds effort. Packages reviewed and fixed, and bugs filed The following reproducible builds-related NMUs were accepted: Patches sent upstream: Reviews of unreproducible packages 41 package reviews have been added, 119 have been updated and 54 have been removed in this week, adding to our knowledge about identified issues. 2 issue types were removed as they were fixed: Weekly QA work During our reproducibility testing, FTBFS bugs have been detected and reported by: diffoscope development strip-nondeterminism development Version 0.039-1 was uploaded to unstable by Chris Lamb. It included contributions already covered by posts of the previous weeks, including: reprotest development tests.reproducible-builds.org Website updates Misc. This week's edition was written by Bernhard M. Wiedemann, Chris Lamb, Holger Levsen, Santiago Torres & reviewed by a bunch of Reproducible Builds folks on IRC & the mailing lists.

3 October 2017

Reproducible builds folks: Reproducible Builds: Weekly report #127

Here's what happened in the Reproducible Builds effort between Sunday September 24 and Saturday September 30 2017: Development and fixes in key packages Kai Harries did an initial packaging of the Nix package manager for Debian. You can track his progress in #877019. Uploads in Debian: Packages reviewed and fixed, and bugs filed Patches sent upstream: Reproducible bugs (with patches) filed in Debian: QA bugs filed in Debian: Reviews of unreproducible packages 103 package reviews have been added, 153 have been updated and 78 have been removed in this week, adding to our knowledge about identified issues. Weekly QA work During our reproducibility testing, FTBFS bugs have been detected and reported by: diffoscope development Mattia Rizzolo uploaded version 87 to stretch-backports. strip-nondeterminism development reprotest development tests.reproducible-builds.org reproducible-website development Misc. This week's edition was written by Ximin Luo, Bernhard M. Wiedemann, Holger Levsen and Chris Lamb & reviewed by a bunch of Reproducible Builds folks on IRC & the mailing lists.

14 August 2017

Reproducible builds folks: Reproducible Builds: Weekly report #119

Here's what happened in the Reproducible Builds effort between Sunday July 30 and Saturday August 5 2017: Media coverage We were mentioned on Late Night Linux Episode 17, around 29:30. Packages reviewed and fixed, and bugs filed Upstream packages: Debian packages: Reviews of unreproducible packages 29 package reviews have been added, 72 have been updated and 151 have been removed in this week, adding to our knowledge about identified issues. 4 issue types have been updated: Weekly QA work During our reproducibility testing, FTBFS bugs have been detected and reported by: diffoscope development Version 85 was uploaded to unstable by Mattia Rizzolo. It included contributions from: as well as previous weeks' contributions, summarised in the changelog. There were also further commits in git, which will be released in a later version: Misc. This week's edition was written by Ximin Luo, Bernhard M. Wiedemann and Chris Lamb & reviewed by a bunch of Reproducible Builds folks on IRC & the mailing lists.

4 July 2017

Reproducible builds folks: Reproducible Builds: week 114 in Stretch cycle

Here's what happened in the Reproducible Builds effort between Sunday June 25 and Saturday July 1 2017: Upcoming and past events Our next IRC meeting is scheduled for July 6th at 17:00 UTC (agenda). Topics to be discussed include an update on our next Summit, a potential NMU campaign, a press release for buster, branding, etc. Toolchain development and fixes Packages fixed and bugs filed Ximin Luo uploaded dash, sensible-utils and xz-utils to the deferred uploads queue with a delay of 14 days. (We have had patches for these core packages for over a year now and the original maintainers seem inactive so Debian conventions allow for this.) Patches submitted upstream: Reviews of unreproducible packages 4 package reviews have been added, 4 have been updated and 35 have been removed in this week, adding to our knowledge about identified issues. One issue types has been updated: One issue type has been added: Weekly QA work During our reproducibility testing, FTBFS bugs have been detected and reported by: diffoscope development tests.reproducible-builds.org Misc. This week's edition was written by Chris Lamb, Ximin Luo, Holger Levsen, Bernhard Wiedemann, Vagrant Cascadian & reviewed by a bunch of Reproducible Builds folks on IRC & the mailing lists.

1 July 2016

Joachim Breitner: When to reroll a six

This is a story about counter-intuitive probabilities and how a small bit of doubt turned out to be very justified. It begins with the game To Court the King (German: Um Krone und Kragen ). It is a nice game with dice and cards, where you start with a few dice, and use your dice rolls to buy additional cards, which give you extra dice or special powers to modify the dice that you rolled. You can actually roll your dice many times, but every time, you have to set aside at least one die, which you can no longer change or reroll, until eventually all dice have been set aside. A few years ago, I have played this game a lot, both online (on yucata.de) as well as in real life. It soon became apparent that it is almost always better to go for the cards that give you an extra die, instead of those that let you modify the dice. Intuitively, this is because every additional die allows you to re-roll your dice once more. I concluded that if I have a certain number of dice (say, n), and I want to have a sum as high as possible at the end, then it may make sense to reroll as many dice as possible, setting aside only those showing a 6 (because that is the best you can get) or, if there is no dice showing a 6, then a single die with the best score. Besides for small number of dice (2 or 3), where even a 4 or 5 is worth keeping, this seemed to be a simple, obvious and correct strategy to maximize the expected outcome of this simplified game. It is definitely simple and obvious. But some doubt that it was correct remained. Having one more die still in the game (i.e. not set aside) definitely improves your expected score, because you can reroll the dice more often. How large is this advantage? What if it ever exceeds 6 then it would make sense to reroll a 6. The thought was strange, but I could not dismiss it. So I did what one does these days if one has a question: I posed it on the mathematics site of StackExchange. That was January 2015, and nothing happened. I tried to answer it myself a month later, or at least work towards at an answer, and did that by brute force. Using a library for probabilistic calculations for Haskell I could write some code that simply calculated the various expected values of n dice for up to n = 9 (beyond that, my unoptimized code would take too long): 
1:  3.50000 (+3.50000)
2:  8.23611 (+4.73611)
3: 13.42490 (+5.18879)
4: 18.84364 (+5.41874)
5: 24.43605 (+5.59241)
6: 30.15198 (+5.71592)
7: 35.95216 (+5.80018)
8: 41.80969 (+5.85753)
9: 47.70676 (+5.89707)
Note that this calculation, although printed as floating point numbers, is performed using fractions of unbounded integers, so there are no rounding issues that could skew the result. The result supported the hypothesis that there is no point in rolling a 6 again: The value of an additional die grows and approaches 6 from beyond, but judging from these number is never going to reach it. Then again nothing happened. Until 14 month later, when some Byron Schmuland came along, found this an interesting puzzle, and set out a 500 point bounty to whoever solved this problem. This attracted a bit attention, and a few not very successful attempts at solving this. Eventually it reached twitter, where Roman Cheplyaka linked to it. Coincidally a day later some joriki came along, and he had a very good idea: Why not make our life easier and think about dice with less sides, and look at 3 instead of 6. This way, and using a more efficient implementation (but still properly using rationals), he could do a similar calculation for up to 50 dice. And it was very lucky that he went to 50, and not just 25, because up to 27, the results were very much as expected, approaching value of +3 from below. But then it surpassed +3 and became +3.000000008463403. In other words: If you have roll 28 dice, and you have exactly two dice showing a 3, then it gives you better expected score if you set aside only one 3, and not both of them. The advantage is minuscule, but that does not matter it is there. From then on, the results behaved strangely. Between 28 and 34, the additional value was larger than 3. Then, from 35 on again lower than 2. It oscillated. Something similar could be observed when the game is played with coins. Eventually, joriki improved his code and applied enough tricks so that he could solve it also for the 6-sided die: The difference of the expected value of 198 dice and having 199 dice is larger than 6 (by 10 21...)! The optimizations that allowed him to calculate these numbers in a reasonable amount of time unfortunately was to assume that my original hypothesis (never rerolling a 6 is optimal), which held until n < 199. But this meant that for n > 199, the code did not yield correct results. What is the rationale of the story? Don t trust common sense when it comes to statistics; don t judge a sequence just from a few initial numbers; if you have an interesting question, post it online and wait for 16 months.

22 May 2016

Reproducible builds folks: Reproducible builds: week 56 in Stretch cycle

What happened in the Reproducible Builds effort between May 15th and May 21st 2016: Media coverage Blog posts from our GSoC and Outreachy contributors: Documentation update Ximin Luo clarified instructions on how to set SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH. Toolchain fixes Other upstream fixes Packages fixed The following 18 packages have become reproducible due to changes in their build dependencies: abiword angband apt-listbugs asn1c bacula-doc bittornado cdbackup fenix gap-autpgrp gerbv jboss-logging-tools invokebinder modplugtools objenesis pmw r-cran-rniftilib x-loader zsnes The following packages have become reproducible after being fixed: Some uploads have fixed some reproducibility issues, but not all of them: Patches submitted that have not made their way to the archive yet: Reproducibility-related bugs filed: Package reviews 51 reviews have been added, 19 have been updated and 15 have been removed in this week. 22 FTBFS bugs have been reported by Chris Lamb, Santiago Vila, Niko Tyni and Daniel Schepler. tests.reproducible-builds.org Misc. This week's edition was written by Reiner Herrmann and Holger Levsen and reviewed by a bunch of Reproducible builds folks on IRC.

19 March 2015

Patrick Matth i: Egypt 2015

Hi, until the end of last week I were my first time in Egypt at Hurghada. Interesting country and culture but I have to think about it if I would travel again to Egypt :D I also travelled to Luxor to visit the city itself, to drive on the Nil river and to visit some attractions like the Luxor-Temple and the Totent11017433_1796663110558337_7374756648991575472_n11008408_1796659850558663_2925510544698606712_nempel of Hatschepsut .10403407_1796662590558389_1133044057957090257_n11050726_1796659530558695_8174734951625786041_n11036989_1796654460559202_4279833744609842255_n 20150305_11585310818350_1796654457225869_5757796598030450751_o10818350_1796654453892536_4219854051826227153_o10818350_1796654450559203_1302840257479631236_o20150305_12500010818350_1796654463892535_7726453475719800892_o13371_1796660463891935_6860209192560525302_n

5 October 2013

Joachim Breitner: Why PVP is better than no PVP

This is a reply to Roman Cheplyaka s post Why PVP doesn't work , where he argues that Haskell packages should not per default put upper bounds on their build dependencies (as mandated by the Package Versioning Policy), at least not without good reason. I disagree, and I d like to explain why. I assume that you are packaging your libraries and programs not only for your fellow developers, but also for users. Hackage has turned not only into a hub for developers sharing their libraries, but also for users to conveniently download stuff from. And when I say users, I include xmonad users (although they write a bit of Haskell for their configuration) and beginners (who we certainly don t expect to understand and make sense of error messages that occur if some obscure crypto-related dependency of their favourite web framework fails to build). And for their benefit we should try hard to make sure cabal install either succeeds (great) or fails early with an error message that the user can understand as I could not find a package configuration of which the maintainers believe with good confidence that it works. Please talk to them. I speak with some experience, because as a maintainer of the >666 Haskell packages in Debian, I am, in a sense, a very heavy user. In the years after the PVP got commonly accepted, we could noticeably reduce the number of build failures that we encounter on our machines and the Debian build farms, simply because the meta data (which we transfer to the Debian package level) prevented such builds from being attempted. We now even have a build compatibility prediction system: We maintain a text file with all Haskell packages in Debian, together with a directory of patches (where we sometimes indeed override the packages Cabal file), and a script that runs cabal-install s dependency checker against this day. This way, when I want to upgrade a package, I can simply change the version in the file and know what packages will be broken. So I change their version until I either find a fixed-point (and only then actually upload packages to the user) or find a problem, which I then report to the maintainers or start cooking up my own patches. This works really well, but it only does because most maintainers are following the PVP. That s why I argue: Please continue to do so. (What we would probably need instead of less using the PVP is more tools in helping us with it. I could imagine a build bot that finds packages on Hackage with an upper bound on a package where a newer version exists, fetches those and automatically tries to build against the new version, and if it succeeds, sends a message to the maintainer: Your dependency on bar in foo also builds against version 0.42 of bar; please check for incompatibilities that are not expressed in the type system and upload a new version of foo allowing bar-0.42. Isn t that something the Stackage infrastructure can be used for?) (What we could probably use as well (and is probably a stepping stone towards what I just said) is a way to tell cabal-install to ignore a certain build dependency version bound. This way we still prevent normal users from trying a dependency version that the maintainer did not test, but nevertheless make it as easy as possible for the advanced user to try nevertheless, and then hopefully report about it to the maintainer. Of course, other had that idea before, someone just has to make it happen.)

14 September 2013

Joachim Breitner: Adding safe coercions to Haskell

Yesterday, I pushed my first sizable contribution to GHC, the Haskell compiler. The feature solves the problem that newtypes are not always free: If we have newtype Age = MkAge Int, then we have all learned that the Age function has zero run-time cost. But if the Int that we want to convert is inside another type, the conversion is no longer free: Converting a Maybe Int to a Maybe Age using, for example, fmap Age, will cause time and space overhead at runtime, and there was no way around it. Well, there is unsafeCoerce, but really, that ought to be avoided. So after some discussion with and encouragement of Simon Peyton Jones at RDP in Eindhoven this year I worked on a design (which was developed, as far as I know, by Simon, Roman Cheplyaka, Stephanie Weirich, Richard Eisenberg and me). In GHC 7.8, there will be a function coerce :: Coercible a b => a -> b that works, from the user point of view, like unsafeCoerce (i.e. no run-time cost), but with the big difference that it will only typecheck if the compiler can infer that it indeed is safe to coerce between a and b. So it will derive Coercible Age Int, and Coercible Int Age, and Coercible (Maybe Age) (Maybe Int) and even stuff like Coercible (Int -> Age) (Age -> Int), but not Coercible Int Bool. It will also not coerce between Age and Int if the constructor MkAge is not exported, to respect module boundaries. Under the hood this relies on the also new feature of roles, which were solved to make the previously unsafe GeneralizedNewtypeDeriving feature safe again, and which also guarantee that coerce is indeed as safe as the name suggests. The feature will come with 7.8, but not fully advertised , so things might change again for 7.10, and bugs with the feature may not necessarily qualify to be fixed in further 7.8.x releases, so beware. It also does not automatically convert fmap Age into coerce, but it is a step in that direction.

4 February 2013

Rapha&#235;l Hertzog: My Free Software Activities in January 2013

This is my monthly summary of my free software related activities. If you re among the people who made a donation to support my work (84.25 , thanks everybody!), then you can learn how I spent your money. Otherwise it s just an interesting status update on my various projects. Debian Packaging In one of my customer projects, I had to use libwebsockets and since it was not packaged for Debian, I filed a Request For Package (RFP #697671). I discovered a fork of this library on github and decided to mail the original author and the author of the fork to learn a bit more about the reason of the fork. It turns out that they miscommunicated and that the original author was interested by most of the improvements. The fork still exists but the important fixes and most of the improvements have been merged (and he released a version 1.0 after that!). Furthermore the original author setup a bug tracker to better organize the project and so that the author of the fork can submit patches and be sure that they won t be forgotten (as it happened in the past). I spend quite some time discussing with both parties but at the end I m pleased to see that good progress has been made (although nobody stepped up to maintain this package in Debian). I packaged zim 0.59 (an important bugfix release) and wordpress 3.5.1 (with several security fixes). I updated the dpkg-dev squeeze backports to version 1.16.9~bpo60+1 on request of Daniel Schepler. This backport led me to file #698133 on kgb-client because the bot literally spammed the #debian-dpkg IRC channel for multiple hours by resending old commit notices that got merged in the squeeze-backports branch. BTW, they need help to get this issue fixed. I updated python-django-registration to fix a compatibility issue with python3-sphinx (see #697721 for details). Misc Debian Stuff Serious bug with salt. I filed a grave bug on salt (#697747 ) and prepared the upload to fix the issue on request of the maintainer. In the mean time, the maintainer orphaned the package. Franklin G. Mendoza already announced its willingness to take over but this package deserves multiple maintainers since this is a good piece of software that is getting more and more popular. net-retriever and alternate keyrings. I filed a wishlist bug (#698618) on net-retriever to request a way for derivatives to use another keyring package (i.e. not debian-archive-keyring-udeb) without having to fork net-retriever. Linux 3.7 on armel/armhf. I helped the kernel maintainers to fix the 3.7 kernel on armel/armhf by reporting on IRC the results of successive failing kernel rebuilds on those architectures (this kernel version is only in experimental). Carl9170 firmware. I also pinged the kernels maintainers about a missing firmware for the carl9170 driver (already reported in #635840) and Ben Hutchings took care of re-activating its inclusion in upstream s linux-firmware.git and then uploaded firmware-free 3.2 to Debian. Thanks Ben! New QA team member. And to finish with the miscellaneous stuff, I helped Holger Levsen to be added to the qa group so that he could integrate his awesome work on automated QA checks with Jenkins. Debian France Preparation for Solutions Linux. The people organizing the village of associations in the Solutions Linux conference have asked all organizations to apply for a booth if they wanted one. Last year Carl Chenet took care of organizing this and this time we had to find someone else. I made multiple call for volunteers (on the mailing list, on my blog) without much success but I finally managed to convince Tanguy Ortolo to take care of this. Thank you Tanguy! Get in touch with treasurer who disappeared. During the transition with the former Debian France officers, it has been said that Aur lien G r me another former treasurer of Debian France had entirely disappeared together with some papers that he never gave to his successor. I didn t want to give up on this without at least trying to get in touch by myself so after multiple tries (over IRC, phone, and snail mail), and some weeks without answers, he got back to me, explaining that he s currently in a foreign country and that he will take care of that next time that he comes in France. \o/ New website in preparation. Replacing the single-page website webpage with a more comprehensive website is an important goal. Alexandre Delano provided a basic ikiwiki setup inspired by dsa.debian.org. I cleaned it and integrated it in a git repository on our machine. There s thus a new test website on http://france.debian.net/test/. Tanguy Ortolo and Fernando Lagrange immeditaly made some small improvements but since then nobody stepped up to further complete the website. I ll try to do this in February and put the new website in production. Paypal and handling of members. We installed a paypal plugin in galette so that members can renew their membership online. I asked Christian Bayle to try it out and we found some issues that I reported upstream and that got fixed. But this is only the first step, we want to go much further and automate all the membership handling, from membership renewal mail reminders up to integration in the accounting system. To this end, I filed some new tickets in the Galette tracker and completed some that were already opened: #490, #368 and #394. We requested a quote for those tickets and Debian France is going to fund the work on those tickets so that we have a 100% free software solution for our needs. Thanks See you next month for a new summary of my activities.

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25 January 2013

Johannes Schauer: Bootstrappable Debian - New Milestone

This post is about the port bootstrap build ordering tool (naming suggestions welcome) which was started as a Debian Google Summer of Code project in 2012 and continued to be developed afterwards. Sources are available through gitorious. In the end of November 2012, I managed to put down an approximation algorithm to the feedback arc set problem which allowed to break the dependency graph into a directed acyclic graph with only few removed build dependencies. I wrote about this effort on our mailinglist but didnt mention it here because it was still too much of a proof-of-concept. Later, in January 2013, I mentioned the result of this algorithm in an email wookey and me wrote to debian-devel mailinglist. Many things happened since November 2012:

Processing pipeline instead of monolithic tools The tools I developed so far tried to accomplish everything by themselves, reusing functionality implemented in a central library. Therefor, if one wanted to try out even trivial new things, it mostly meant to hack some OCaml code. Pietro Abate suggested to instead develop smaller tools which could work independently of each other, would only execute one algorithm each and could easily be connected together in different ways to achieve different effects. This switch is now done and all functionality from the old tools is moved into a new toolset. The exchange format between the tools is either plain text files in deb822 control format (Packages/Sources files) or a dependency graph. The dependency graph is currently marshalled by OCaml but future versions should work with just passing a GraphML (an XML graph format) representation around. This new way of doing things seems close to the UNIX philosophy (each program does one thing well, data is stored as text, every program is a filter). For example the deb822 control output can easily be manipulated using grep-dctrl(1) and there exist many tools which can read, analyze and manipulate GraphML. It is a big improvement over the old, monolithic tools which did not allow to manipulate any intermediate result by external, existing tools. Currently, a shell script (native.sh) will execute all tools in a meaningful order, connecting them together correctly. The same tools will be used for a future cross.sh but they will be connected differently. I wrote about a first proposal of what the individual tools should do and how they should be connected in this email from which I also linked a confusing overview of the pipeline. This overview has recently been improved to be even more confusing and the current version of the lower half (the native part) now looks like this: native reduced Solid arrows represent a flow of binary packages, dottend arrows represent a flow of source packages, ovals represent a set of packages, boxes with rounded corners represent set operations, rectangular boxes represent filters. There is only one input to a filter, which is the arrow connected to the top of the box. Outgoing arrows from the bottom represent the filtered input. Ingoing arrows to either side are arguments to the filter and control how the filter behaves depending on the algorithm. I will explain this better once the pipeline proved to be less in flux. The pipeline is currently executed like this by native.sh.

Two new ways to break dependency cycles have been discovered So far, we knew of three ways to formally break dependency cycles:
  • remove build dependencies through build profiles
  • find out that the build dependency is only used to build arch:all packages and therefor put it into Build-Depends-Indep
  • cross compile some source packages
Two new methods can be added to the above:

Dependency graph definition changed Back in September when I was visiting irill, Pietro found a flaw in how the dependency graph used to be generated. He supplied a new definition of the dependency graph which does away with the problem he found. After fixing some small issues with his code, I changed all the existing algorithms to use the new graph definition. The old graph is as of today removed from the repository. Thanks to Pietro for supplying the new graph definition - I must still admit that my OCaml foo is not strong enough to have come up with his code.

Added complexity for profile built source packages As mentioned in the introduction, wookey and me addressed the debian-devel list with a proposal on necessary changes for an automated bootstrapping of Debian. During the discussiong, two important things came up which are to be considered by the dependency graph algorithms:
  • profile built source packages may not create all binary packages
  • profile built source packages may need additional build dependencies
Both things make it necessary to alter the dependency graph during the generation of a feedback arc set and feedback vertex set beyond the simple removal of edges. Luckily, the developed approximation algorithms can be extended to support such changes in the graph.

Different feedback arc set algorithms The initially developed feedback arc set algorithm is well suited to discover build dependency edges which should be dropped. It performs far worse when creating the final build order because it only considers edges by itself and not how many edges of a source package can be dropped by profile building it. The adjusted algorithm for generating a build order is more of a feedback vertex set algorithm because instead of greedily finding the edge with most cycles through it, it greedily finds the source package which would break most cycles if it was profile built.

Generating a build order with less profile built source packages After implementing all the features above I now feel more confident to publish the current status of the tools to a wider audience. The following test shows a run of the aforementioned ./native.sh shell script. Its final output is a list of source packages which have to be profile built and a build order. Using the resulting build order, starting from a minimal build system (essential:yes, build-essential and debhelper), all source packages will be compiled which are needed to compile all binary packages in the system. The result will therefor be a list of source and binary packages which fulfill the following property:
  • all binary packages can be built from the available source packages
  • all source packages can be built with the available binary packages
I called this a "reduceded distribution" in earlier posts. The interesting property of this specific selection is, that it contains the biggest problem set of Debian when bootstrapping it: a 900 to 1000 nodes big strongly connected component. Here is a visualization of the problem: hideous mess Source packages do not yet come with build profiles and the cross build situation can not yet be analyzed, so the following assumptions were made: The last point is about 14 build dependencies which were decided to be broken by the feedback arc set algorithm but for which other data sources did not indicate that they are actually breakable. Those 14 are dynamically generated by native.sh. If above assumptions should not be too far from the actual situation, then not more than 73 source packages have to be modified to bootstrap a reduced distribution. This reduced distribution even includes dependency-wise "big" packages like webkit, metacity, iceweasel, network-manager, tracker, gnome-panel, evolution-data-server, kde-runtime, libav and nautilus. By changing one line in native.sh one could easily develop a build order which generates gnome-desktop or really any given (meta-)package selection. All of native.sh takes only 80 seconds to execute on my system (Core i5, 2.5 GHz, singlethreaded). Here is the final build order which creates 2044 binary packages from 613 source packages.
  1. nspr, libio-pty-perl, libmcrypt, unzip, libdbi-perl, cdparanoia, libelf, c-ares, liblocale-gettext-perl, libibverbs, numactl, ilmbase, tbb, check, libogg, libatomic-ops, libnl($), orc($), libaio, tcl8.4, kmod, libgsm, lame, opencore-amr, tcl8.5, exuberant-ctags, mhash, libtext-iconv-perl, libutempter, pciutils, gperf, hspell, recode, tcp-wrappers, fdupes, chrpath, libbsd, zip, procps, wireless-tools, cpufrequtils, ed, libjpeg8, hesiod, pax, less, dietlibc, netkit-telnet, psmisc, docbook-to-man, libhtml-parser-perl, libonig, opensp($), libterm-size-perl, linux86, libxmltok, db-defaults, java-common, sharutils, libgpg-error, hardening-wrapper, cvsps, p11-kit, libyaml, diffstat, m4
  2. openexr, enca, help2man, speex, libvorbis, libid3tag, patch, openjade1.3, openjade, expat, fakeroot, libgcrypt11($), ustr, sysvinit, netcat, libirman, html2text, libmad, pth, clucene-core, libdaemon($), texinfo, popt, net-tools, tar, libsigsegv, gmp, patchutils($), dirac, cunit, bridge-utils, expect, libgc, nettle, elfutils, jade, bison
  3. sed, indent, findutils, fastjar, cpio, chicken, bzip2, aspell, realpath, dctrl-tools, rsync, ctdb, pkg-config($), libarchive, gpgme1.0, exempi, pump, re2c, klibc, gzip, gawk, flex-old, original-awk, mawk, libtasn1-3($), flex($), libtool
  4. libcap2, mksh, readline6, libcdio, libpipeline, libcroco, schroedinger, desktop-file-utils, eina, fribidi, libusb, binfmt-support, silgraphite2.0, atk1.0($), perl, gnutls26($), netcat-openbsd, ossp-uuid, gsl, libnfnetlink, sg3-utils, jbigkit, lua5.1, unixodbc, sqlite, wayland, radvd, open-iscsi, libpcap, linux-atm, gdbm, id3lib3.8.3, vo-aacenc, vo-amrwbenc, fam, faad2, hunspell, dpkg, tslib, libart-lgpl, libidl, dh-exec, giflib, openslp-dfsg, ppl($), xutils-dev, blcr, bc, time, libdatrie, libpthread-stubs, guile-1.8, libev, attr, libsigc++-2.0, pixman, libpng, libssh2, sqlite3, acpica-unix, acl, a52dec
  5. json-c, cloog-ppl, libverto, glibmm2.4, rtmpdump, libdbd-sqlite3-perl, nss, freetds, slang2, libpciaccess, iptables, e2fsprogs, libnetfilter-conntrack, bash, libthai, python2.6($), libice($), libpaper, libfontenc($), libxau, libxdmcp($), openldap($), cyrus-sasl2($), openssl, python2.7($)
  6. psutils, libevent, stunnel4, libnet-ssleay-perl, libffi, readline5, file, libvoikko, gamin, libieee1284, build-essential, libcap-ng($), lcms($), keyutils, libxml2, libxml++2.6, gcc-4.6($), binutils, dbus($), libsm($), libxslt, doxygen($)
  7. liblqr, rarian, xmlto, policykit-1($), libxml-parser-perl, tdb, devscripts, eet, libasyncns, libusbx, icu, linux, libmng, shadow, xmlstarlet, tidy, gavl, flac, dbus-glib($), libxcb, apr, krb5, alsa-lib
  8. usbutils, enchant, neon27, uw-imap, libsndfile, yasm, xcb-util, gconf($), shared-mime-info($), audiofile, ijs($), jbig2dec, libx11($)
  9. esound, freetype, libxkbfile, xvidcore, xcb-util-image, udev($), libxfixes, libxext($), libxt, libxrender
  10. tk8.4, startup-notification, libatasmart, fontconfig, libxp, libdmx, libvdpau, libdrm, libxres, directfb, libxv, libxxf86dga, libxxf86vm, pcsc-lite, libxss, libxcomposite, libxcursor, libxdamage, libxi($), libxinerama, libxrandr, libxmu($), libxpm, libxfont($)
  11. xfonts-utils, libxvmc, xauth, libxtst($), libxaw($)
  12. pmake, corosync, x11-xserver-utils, x11-xkb-utils, coreutils, xft, nas, cairo
  13. libedit, cairomm, tk8.5, openais, pango1.0($)
  14. ocaml, blt, ruby1.8, firebird2.5, heimdal, lvm2($)
  15. cvs($), python-stdlib-extensions, parted, llvm-2.9, ruby1.9.1, findlib, qt4-x11($)
  16. xen, mesa, audit($), avahi($)
  17. x11-utils, xorg-server, freeglut, libva
  18. jasper, tiff3, python3.2($)
  19. openjpeg, qt-assistant-compat, v4l-utils, qca2, jinja2, markupsafe, lcms2, sip4, imlib2, netpbm-free, cracklib2, cups($), postgresql-9.1
  20. py3cairo, pycairo, pam, libgnomecups, gobject-introspection($)
  21. gdk-pixbuf, libgnomeprint, gnome-menus, gsettings-desktop-schemas, pangomm, consolekit, vala-0.16($), colord($), atkmm1.6
  22. libgee, gtk+3.0($), gtk+2.0($)
  23. gtkmm2.4, poppler($), openssh, libglade2, libiodbc2, gcr($), libwmf, systemd($), gcj-4.7, java-atk-wrapper($)
  24. torque, ecj($), vala-0.14, gnome-keyring($), gcc-defaults, gnome-vfs($)
  25. libidn, libgnome-keyring($), openmpi
  26. mpi-defaults, dnsmasq, wget, lynx-cur, ghostscript, curl
  27. fftw3, gnupg, libquvi, xmlrpc-c, raptor, liboauth, groff, fftw, boost1.49, apt
  28. boost-defaults, libsamplerate, cmake, python-apt
  29. qjson, qtzeitgeist, libssh, qimageblitz, pkg-kde-tools, libical, dwarves-dfsg, automoc, attica, yajl, source-highlight, pygobject, pygobject-2, mysql-5.5($)
  30. libdbd-mysql-perl, polkit-qt-1, libdbusmenu-qt, raptor2, dbus-python, apr-util
  31. rasqal, serf, subversion($), apache2
  32. git, redland
  33. xz-utils, util-linux, rpm, man-db, make-dfsg, libvisual, cryptsetup, libgd2, gstreamer0.10
  34. mscgen, texlive-bin
  35. dvipng, luatex
  36. libconfig, transfig, augeas, blas, libcaca, autogen, libdbi, linuxdoc-tools, gdb, gpm
  37. ncurses, python-numpy($), rrdtool, w3m, iproute, gcc-4.7, libtheora($), gcc-4.4
  38. libraw1394, base-passwd, lm-sensors, netcf, eglibc, gst-plugins-base0.10
  39. libiec61883, qtwebkit, libvirt, libdc1394-22, net-snmp, jack-audio-connection-kit($), bluez
  40. redhat-cluster, gvfs($), pulseaudio($)
  41. phonon, libsdl1.2, openjdk-6($)
  42. phonon-backend-gstreamer($), gettext, libbluray, db, swi-prolog, qdbm, swig2.0($)
  43. highlight, libselinux, talloc, libhdate, libftdi, libplist, python-qt4, libprelude, libsemanage, php5
  44. samba, usbmuxd, libvpx, lirc, bsdmainutils, libiptcdata, libgtop2, libgsf, telepathy-glib, libwnck3, libnotify, libunique3, gnome-desktop3, gmime, glib2.0, json-glib, libgnomecanvas, libcanberra, orbit2, udisks, d-conf, libgusb
  45. libgnomeprintui, libimobiledevice, nautilus($), libbonobo, librsvg
  46. evas, wxwidgets2.8, upower, gnome-disk-utility, libgnome
  47. ecore, libbonoboui
  48. libgnomeui
  49. graphviz
  50. exiv2, libexif, lapack, soprano, libnl3, dbus-c++
  51. atlas, libffado, graphicsmagick, libgphoto2, network-manager
  52. pygtk, jackd2, sane-backends, djvulibre
  53. libav($), gpac($), ntrack, python-imaging, imagemagick, dia
  54. x264($), matplotlib, iceweasel
  55. strigi, opencv, libproxy($), ffms2
  56. kde4libs, frei0r, glib-networking
  57. kde-baseapps, kate, libsoup2.4
  58. geoclue, kde-runtime, totem-pl-parser, libgweather, librest, libgdata
  59. webkit
  60. zenity, gnome-online-accounts
  61. metacity, evolution-data-server
  62. gnome-panel
  63. tracker
The final recompilation of profile built source packages is omitted. Source packages marked with a ($) are selected to be profile built. All source packages listed in the same line can be built in parallel as they do not depend upon each other. This order looks convincing as it first compiles a multitude of source packages which have no or only few build dependencies lacking. Later steps allow fewer source packages to be compiled in parallel. The amount of needed build dependencies is highest in the source packages that are built last.

16 January 2010

Biella Coleman: Being Bad-Ass w/o the Arrogance

bad-ass For the first time in a long while I took a vacation in New Zealand where I am for LCA. I decided to also take a break (mostly) from the Internet but I decided to it was worth to come back to write a brief response to Clay Shirky s rant about women, which I find pretty unsettling. So the basic upshot of his entry is that for women to get ahead in this world, they need to not only behave more like men but in specific, like all the effing blow-hard jerky self-promoting men like, well Clay Shirky (I guess, right? and he in fact might be proud, I a woman, made this accusation). What I appreciate about the post is the fact that he does not pigeon hole women as caring, maternal, and meek. I have always resented the idea that women can t be assertive and confident. However, confidence and self-esteem, which I agree are vital for getting noted, does not inherently entail jerky behavior.I think Shirky s perspective might be skewed because of his home field, which is filled with just the type of guys he is describing. I call them pundit-entrepreneurs (though to be sure some are pretty darn nice). If you take the field of anthropology, for example, it has traditionally and for a long time been known for grand slam female scholars from Ruth Benedict and Margaret Mead in the past to the ones of the present like Nancy Scheper Hughes and Jean Comaroff. During grad school, I was surrounded by strong, smart, witty, confident ladies and always felt I had role models to follow and emulate. They were not, however, low-life jerks clawing their way to the top of the academic mountain leaving a trail of destruction behind their path. Then when I started to go to the tech and media academic conferences, I was soon swimming in a sea of mostly white men and the vibe was different. I was ignored and talked over a handful of times, which had never happened to me before. There was a lot more self-promotion than I had seen in other fields, in part, it seemed because the media pays more attention to this field so folks are trying to get the media light focused on them. While I don t disagree that many fields from medicine to law promote and reward blow-hards and massive unrestrained arrogance, I would rather not create a false binary between meek/low self-esteem/female and total-jerky/arrogance/confidence. Why not instead promote and highlight behavior that rewards confidence sans the arrogance? Here are some thoughtful related posts.

Biella Coleman: Being Bad-Ass w/o the Arrogance

bad-ass For the first time in a long while I took a vacation in New Zealand where I am for LCA. I decided to also take a break (mostly) from the Internet but I decided to it was worth to come back to write a brief response to Clay Shirky s rant about women, which I find pretty unsettling. So the basic upshot of his entry is that for women to get ahead in this world, they need to not only behave more like men but in specific, like all the effing blow-hard jerky self-promoting men like, well Clay Shirky (I guess, right? and he in fact might be proud, I a woman, made this accusation). What I appreciate about the post is the fact that he does not pigeon hole women as caring, maternal, and meek. I have always resented the idea that women can t be assertive and confident. However, confidence and self-esteem, which I agree are vital for getting noted, does not inherently entail jerky behavior.I think Shirky s perspective might be skewed because of his home field, which is filled with just the type of guys he is describing. I call them pundit-entrepreneurs (though to be sure some are pretty darn nice). If you take the field of anthropology, for example, it has traditionally and for a long time been known for grand slam female scholars from Ruth Benedict and Margaret Mead in the past to the ones of the present like Nancy Scheper Hughes and Jean Comaroff. During grad school, I was surrounded by strong, smart, witty, confident ladies and always felt I had role models to follow and emulate. They were not, however, low-life jerks clawing their way to the top of the academic mountain leaving a trail of destruction behind their path. Then when I started to go to the tech and media academic conferences, I was soon swimming in a sea of mostly white men and the vibe was different. I was ignored and talked over a handful of times, which had never happened to me before. There was a lot more self-promotion than I had seen in other fields, in part, it seemed because the media pays more attention to this field so folks are trying to get the media light focused on them. While I don t disagree that many fields from medicine to law promote and reward blow-hards and massive unrestrained arrogance, I would rather not create a false binary between meek/low self-esteem/female and total-jerky/arrogance/confidence. Why not instead promote and highlight behavior that rewards confidence sans the arrogance? Here are some thoughtful related posts.

26 September 2009

Stefano Zacchiroli: RC bugs of the week - week 4

RCBW - week #4 RC bugs squashed this week by yours truly: You're welcome to join the initiative!, in doing so please tag the blog post as "debian" and "rc".

24 September 2008

Lucas Nussbaum: Cool stats about Debian bugs

Now that bug #500000 has been reported, let’s have a look at all our other bugs, using UDD. Number of archived bugs: 
select count(*) from archived_bugs;
 count
--------
 402826
Number of unarchived bugs marked done: 
select count(*) from bugs where status = 'done';
 count
-------
  8267
Status of unarchived bugs (”pending” doesn’t mean “tagged pending” here): 
select status, count(*) from bugs group by status;
    status       count
---------------+-------
 pending         53587
 pending-fixed    1195
 forwarded        6778
 done             8267
 fixed             167
The sum isn’t even close to 500000. That’s because quite a lot of bugs disappeared: 
select id from bugs union select id from archived_bugs order by id limit 10;
 id
-----
 563
 660
 710
 725
 740
 773
 775
 783
 817
 819
Now, let’s look at our open bugs.
Oldest open bugs: 
select id, package, title, arrival from bugs where status != 'done' order by id limit 10;
  id       package                                         title                                            arrival
------+----------------+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+---------------------
  825   trn              trn warning messages corrupt thread selector display                         1995-04-22 18:33:01
 1555   dselect          dselect per-screen-half focus request                                        1995-10-06 15:48:04
 2297   xterm            xterm: xterm sometimes gets mouse-paste and RETURN keypress in wrong order   1996-02-07 21:33:01
 2298   trn              trn bug with shell escaping                                                  1996-02-07 21:48:01
 3175   xonix            xonix colors bad for colorblind                                              1996-05-31 23:18:04
 3180   linuxdoc-tools   linuxdoc-sgml semantics and formatting problems                              1996-06-02 05:18:03
 3251   acct             accounting file corruption                                                   1996-06-12 17:44:10
 3773   xless            xless default window too thin and won't go away when asked nicely            1996-07-14 00:03:09
 4073   make             make pattern rules delete intermediate files                                 1996-08-08 20:18:01
 4448   dselect          [PERF] dselect performance gripe (disk method doing dpkg -iGROEB)            1996-09-09 03:33:05
Breakdown by severity: 
select severity, count(*) from bugs where status != 'done' group by severity;
 severity    count
-----------+-------
 normal      27680
 important    7606
 minor        6921
 wishlist    18898
 critical       29
 grave         209
 serious       384
Top 10 submitters for open bugs: 
select submitter, count(*) from bugs where status != 'done' group by submitter order by count desc limit 10;
submitter                        count
----------------------------------------------------+-------
 Dan Jacobson                     1455
 martin f krafft                    667
 Raphael Geissert                    422
 Joey Hess                            392
 Marc Haber                368
 Julien Danjou                         342
 Josh Triplett                    331
 Vincent Lefevre                    296
 jidanni@jidanni.org                                    260
 Justin Pryzby      245
Top bugs reporters ever: 
select submitter, count(*) from (select * from bugs union select * from archived_bugs) as all_bugs
group by submitter order by count desc limit 10;
                  submitter                     count
----------------------------------------------+-------
 Martin Michlmayr                4279
 Dan Jacobson               3652
 Daniel Schepler     3045
 Joey Hess                     2836
 Lucas Nussbaum        2701
 Andreas Jochens                   2605
 Matthias Klose            2442
 Christian Perrier           2302
 James Troup                   2198
 Matt Zimmerman                  2027
You want more data? Connect to UDD (from master.d.o or alioth.d.o, more info here), run your own queries, and post them with the results in the comments!

5 May 2008

Francois Marier: Logstalgia (aka ApachePong) now in Debian

Andrew Caudwell's Logstalgia (aka ApachePong) has made it to Debian! It's a fun little Apache access log viewer which replays old logs (or streams live ones) as an OpenGL pong game.

So grab your favourite high-traffic access log and head over to the download page to check it out. There's also a youtube video if you can't find an interesting log file to use it with.

19 August 2006

Clint Adams: Whaling in Memphis

I was sitting in the airport, watching all the teenage Marines hitting on each woman they saw, and watching them get consistently rejected, when I may have had an auditory hallucination. By means of the public address system, some sort of airline employee had summoned a list of passengers to the gate, and none of those passengers were named Horselover Fat. Nevertheless, I sashayed up to the desk and inquired of the manchimp standing there, Did someone call my name? He looked at me, grinning smugly, and asserted his intellectual superiority by pointing out that he couldn't answer that question without knowing my name. Rather than explaining to him that he could have assimilated that little bit of knowledge by reading the boarding pass that I was holding in front of me, I told him that my name was Jarom Hennessey, for that was the name in the passport I was using. (Hi, Alana. Hi, Ophira. Die, Aliza.) Nope, he said, and as I began climbing over a pile of Marines, he continued, Oh, wait. She called your name and I didn't hear. So I climbed back, and waited for him to ask my name. Alas, he did not; he only said, You don't have any objection to sitting in Business class, do you? No, I lied, and so he printed me a new boarding pass. It turns out that this was the good sort of Business class not the foul sort you might get on British Midlands, where your seat is exactly 14 millimetres wider than those in Economy, and they still stab you with sharpened Yorkshire pudding and plead with you to do your part in lightening the load of the airplane, even though you are several thousand feet in the air and don't even want to be going to the UK in the first place, but the kind where the enormous seat reclines all the way back, has electronic adjustable lumbar support and all kinds of other gadgets, the food is pretty good, and you can even get snakes if you ask for them. First class on that flight looked even better, especially because there was a 55-year-old 4'7"-tall man giving people laypdances and begging them not to keep calling him a stewardess , because apparently he is some sort of flight attendant . Anyway, I sat next to some fratboy douchebag who eventually learned to mind his own goddamn business, and passed on the free Bellinis since it was only 6am. I did avail myself of other free stuff, and when the stewardess (not the guy from First class) took my breakfast order, she asked if I wanted a DVD player. In mimicry of Fratboy Douchebag, I grunted, Sure. She brought me a portable DVD player, which claimed to have a battery, but didn't work unless it was plugged in, and also claimed that it would not play any DVDs not provided by the airline. I did not have the opportunity to test this, since I had opted to not bring any DVDs with me. Instead, I perused the selection provided me. These DVDs were all labeled to indicate that they could be played only in the airline-provided DVD player. I have a funny story about that. I'm not going to tell it. I don the noise-cancelling headphones, and jack them into the DVD player, into which I have put Transamerica. For a little while, I think that the lack of speech is the movie being artsy. Then I begin to suspect that something is horribly wrong, so I start over, with subtitles on. It becomes clear that all the speech has been elided, as well as some of the sound effects. A bad burn? I swap the DVD out for Firewall, and experience similar problems. Summoning one of the stewardesses, I complain that there seems to be something wrong with something. I trade everything in for a new set. This time I don't get Transamerica, so I put in Firewall; having seen the first two minutes, I have to watch it to completion now. There's no sound at all. I discover that if I press down on the headphone plug, shifting the jack sideways, I can hear the audio portion of the presentation. What a pain in the ass. Here would be another good place to not tell the funny story. I switched to a better movie after that. In retrospect, I should have taken more advantage of the in-flight service, since my next leg was abysmal. This airline was one of my favorites a little over half a decade ago, and now I am plotting ways to never fly it again. I'll note that the seat was smaller than Greg Pomerantz's former toilet, that the radio controls were from the wrong century, and instead of having hot food included, the flight staff sold sandwiches and snack boxes . Matthew Garrett might say that this sort of flight gives one more freedom than the sort where you get a choice between two different meals or nothing at all, but I think that it is a travesty. There should be giant warning indications for such flights, so that one has ample time to purchase crappy, overpriced airport food to drag on board, as that is a better alternative. The third leg was rather unremarkable, except for the elderly Jewish man who kept fondling a stewardess and gesticulating some sort of claim that he had no command of English. Just prior to the descent, she gave him a loud scolding, repeating at the end, Yes, you understand me. I imagine that she could make quite a bit of money as a prostitute for the Chasidim; they like their hookers blonde. Now the fourth leg was pleasant for numerous reasons, most of which are boring. The guy across the aisle from me bore some disturbing similarities to Mr. Foxworthy, but was not nearly entertaining enough to hold either my interest or the interest of a blonde chick, who sat on the other side of him and probably wouldn't be all that popular with the Chasidim. One of the stewardesses was Latina, but spoke like a limp Swiss man. Her partner in comedy was not Latina, and did not speak like a limp Swiss man. I didn't catch their names, so I'll call the first one Marta and the second one Gladys. Marta and Gladys were having a work-related discussion about a complimentary beverage prior to it having been served to some fool behind me. There was a bit of a communication mixup, so Gladys leaned over to me and gestured a few allegations about Marta, concluding with So if you have to talk to her, just use sign language or somethin'. Hearing this, Marta shoved Gladys out of the way, leaned over to me, and said, You just wait. Later on, I'll tell you something really bad about her. Then I wrecked some guy's priceless painting. Oops. Isn't paint a liquid- or gel-like substance? If you ask me, all instances of art are terraist weapons. Oh, Gladys sighed happily, I don't know what I'd do if you weren't here. Later, at the deplaning, Gladys cried out, My friend! , and Marta nudged me and said, She's single!

19 March 2006

Clint Adams: This report is flawed, but it sure is fun

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270F932C9Cdoko
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23F1BCDB73aurel3213-2
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158E635A5Erafl
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133D08B612msp
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12E7075A54mhatta
12D75F8533joss1342
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127F961564kobold
122A30D729pere4213
1216D970C6eric12--
115E0577F2mpitt
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112BE16D01moray1342
10BC7D020Aformorer-1--
10A7D91602apollock4213
10A51A4FDDgcs
10917A225Ejordi
104B729625pvaneynd3123
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913FEFC40fenio-1--
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87F4E0E11waldi-123
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21 December 2005

Joey Hess: trainwrecks

As you read this fascinating but edited-for-brevity irc log from #debian-boot, imagine yourself as a contributor to either the larger Debian project or the Debian-Installer sub-project. At what point do you begin to feel insulted?
<Chepre> can i talk to the chief of debian please. the whole project could earn some money
<minghua> Chepre: if you are serious, write email to leader@debian.org
<Chepre> thanks minghua. is there a way to get a "official" release created with all up-to-date modules, like for Intel ICH7 sATA-Controller...as long as i pay for it?
<minghua> Chepre: chances are small. the official release is a long process
<minghua> and it doesn't happen often
<minghua> the earliest date you can expect for next release is probably end of 2006
<minghua> so you would have a better chance to hire some people/company who knows debian and provide you an updated kernel
<Chepre> OMG? does debian have not enough coders or don't they have "fun" to keep it up-to-date? e.g. the intel ich7 is already very old
<Chepre> well, can i hire the debian-team?
<minghua> Chepre: well, there is no official "team", but sure, you can hire debian developers
<gravity> Chepre: The stock kernel doesn't support your device? Why not? Is the driver not in the mainline kernel tree?
<Chepre> no
<gravity> Why not?
<Chepre> its just a default Dell PowerEdge 850 with Intel ICH7 and it isn't supported
<gravity> Chepre: Well, did you send an installation report?
<Chepre> gravity: no
<gravity> Chepre: That'd be a good first step to getting your problem fixed for future releases
<minghua> Chepre: ah, then it's supported by stock kernel after all, did you say it only works for kernel > 2.6.12?
<Chepre> minghua: 2.6.8-2 doesnt support it
<minghua> Chepre: okay, so as gravity said, write an installation report so that people know your problem
<Chepre> well, we cant wait month or years for a fix
<gravity> Chepre: You can create a custom installer image with the updated kernel for your work
<Chepre> we have to install many server in the next weeks :(
<munghua> Chepre: then I'm sure if you offer enough money, some d-i people can provide an installer with a newer kernel for you
<Chepre> well, i already got an custom installer but its a bit buggy...i need a whole netinst with the same "quality" like the official releases got
<gravity> sounds you were at the right track at the beginning... though "chief of debian" is probably the wrong person to contact :-P
<gravity> You could send a mail to debian-boot I suppose, offering the work for what you need
<Chepre> well, i also need up-to-date software, not just only the installer :( so the "whole" debian-team has to stop current work and has to start creating a stable version which is newer than the current unstable
<Chepre> minghua: do you think 50k are enough to get a 3.3 as stable?
<minghua> Chepre: by "up-to-date software" you mean all the software, including desktop, web servers, and stuff?
<gravity> Chepre: You may want to check out an alternative source. HP, as I understand it, provides the kind of support you want. Progeny does as well. And Ubuntu has their own full derivative with this sort of thing
<Chepre> minghua: right, as long the software is not a beta :)
<gravity> Chepre: The whole Debian team is not the kind of project that'll do this for you
<Chepre> so the debian-team dont want to earn money?
<Chepre> gravity: i know, open source :) ... but i think the guys making a new "official" release for me whould be very happy getting up to 20.000 us$ for one month of work
<gravity> Chepre: It would violate a lot of principles and the stable release policy to do an official debian release. You could get what you need with a name other than debian though, with some of the companies I listed above
<Chepre> where is the problem? i give you the money and you give me an up-to-date release which is only for my company, not for public
<gravity> I know I'd quit the project if there was an official Debian release for cash
<minghua> and there are like what, 10,000 packages in sarge now?
<gravity> Chepre: That's what those companies are for. Debian doesn't work like that
<gravity> Chepre: If you want to talk to individual debian developers for that, you can do that too
<Chepre> hmm, ok....now i know why the d-i doesn't recognize smp or 64bit systems
Now imagine yourself as someone who is trying to install Debian on twenty thousand stock machines for work and it's not working. At what point above did you begin to feel alienated? (Assuming that "Chepre" is not trolling,) Neither side in this exchange is particularly meaning to insult the other, both are doing what is right and obvious from their perspective. Two ships passing in the night, two trains speeding down a track, I don't know. It's a shame we can't deal better with this sort of thing. I would be truely interested to see how other free software projects deal with it differently. The rest of this is my attempt at some analysis and is probably not very useful.. A few mistakes Chepre made: A few mistakes the channel (irr-)regulars made: